Curse

LifeInfusion · Jan 02, 2008, 01:47 AM // 01:47

I know people use Spirit Bond on their heroes/for 600 monk. But why use it instead of Protective Spirit?

Some observations:
The duration is much shorter than Protective Spirit and only affects 10 attacks/spells ...the thing that it has that helps is a recharge of 2 (something that's not going to be much use unless you have insane energy management).

At 14 Prot it will heal 96, which isn't enough to counter any sort of damage in Hard Mode form just about any weapon user. Granted, it is one of the few actual heals in Protection Prayers (the other being dismiss condition without a condition, Zealous Benediction, and Mark of Protection).

The only use I can see is after putting on Prot Spirit to counter melee pressure. Is this analysis correct?

John Panda · Jan 02, 2008, 01:57 AM // 01:57

If I have two hybrid monks one runs Protective Spirit And one runs Spirit bond

if i only have one i choose Protective spirit.

I Phoenix I · Jan 02, 2008, 02:05 AM // 02:05

PvE Bosses = 300 or so damage.

Spirit Bond: 300 dmg, 96 heal, take 204 dmg
Protective Spirit: 300 dmg, reduced to about 60 dmg on an average character

The thing is, in PvE, things hit crazy hard, but not necessarily repeated, while in PvP, things hit pretty hard and repeatedly during spikes. Hard enough to trigger SB, but not 300 dmg.

RhanoctJocosa · Jan 02, 2008, 02:21 AM // 02:21

If the bosses are free to do their 300 damage you're going to wipe anyway. Spirit Bond for me. For melee pressure, in PvE, you just need a big prot then SoA.

LifeInfusion · Jan 02, 2008, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

If the bosses are free to do their 300 damage you're going to wipe anyway. Spirit Bond for me. For melee pressure, in PvE, you just need a big prot then SoA.

Why would you spirit bond though?

Your reasoning consists of "they shouldn't be doing 300".

moko · Jan 02, 2008, 02:44 AM // 02:44

run both.

if you have to pick; PS.

CR3AT0R · Jan 02, 2008, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

run both.

if you have to pick; PS.

dont run a monk run 1 n/rit 2 mms else UR BAED D:<

nighthawk329 · Jan 02, 2008, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by CR3AT0R

dont run a monk run 1 n/rit 2 mms else UR BAED D:<

don't listen to him.

In HM, no question. Protective Spirit > Spirit Bond. If the two monks on your team have good communication (vent), both should bring Protective Spirit IMO, making sure not to overlap.

But NM is a different story. Protective Spirit is better against NM bosses that do 200 or more damage per hit.

But against NM normal mobs and some bosses that hit around 100 each, SB is the better choice. Let's consider a 100 damage hit.
SB: 100 dmg + around 90 SB heal = around 10 hp net loss
PS: 50-60 dmg = 50-60 hp net loss

But PS also lasts a lot longer than SB, which means it will catch more spike hits, since PvE spike damage is more spread out over a long period like I Phoenix I said.

So...Final Verdict:
HM: PS on both (with good communication)
NM: PS on one, SB on another

Coloneh · Jan 02, 2008, 04:43 AM // 04:43

same thing in an HA group as a PvE group, 1 monk runs prot spirit, and one runs SB.

following the monk build template: RoF, spike heal, light prot, heavy prot, hex removal, condition removal, optional/e-managment

i Valinor · Jan 02, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33

in HM spirit bond is good. even in normal its good, but i would run it on my bar before a heros.

Arkantos · Jan 02, 2008, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

run both.

if you have to pick; PS.

/agreed

12345

dasullybear · Jan 02, 2008, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Most of the time id say neither.

If your PUG/HeroHench'ing it, you're not gonna have an organized situation where theres a tank or 2 with most of the aggro, to make either one fully effective.

Also, monk npcs are in no way capable of using either of these:
10En down the drain to watch SB waste itself on me as the enemy mobs a monk? Nty.

If your a player monk, prot spirit is perfectly viable. I dont condone the use of SB in any situation however, the main reason its used in pvp is the player coordinated spikes. Unless theres a new update where npcs have vent/ts and organize spikes?

I dont even see why SB is used in GvG, sure it is actived well by the spikes, but wait! hold on! heals for around 70Ish health? Theres only... a billion skills in the healing prayers line, and half a billion skills in the prot line, that heal for more with 1/2 the energy cost.

Other than the rare solo/dual farm use, SB is a completely useless skill if you ask me.

Wakka · Jan 02, 2008, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

I dont even see why SB is used in GvG, sure it is actived well by the spikes, but wait! hold on! heals for around 70Ish health? Theres only... a billion skills in the healing prayers line, and half a billion skills in the prot line, that heal for more with 1/2 the energy cost.

Completly kills the spike, and considering most builds except maybe a pressure build involve a spike of some sort, its far from useless. Monk hero's may not use it the best but its a great skill if used right

Avarre · Jan 02, 2008, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasullybear

I dont even see why SB is used in GvG, sure it is actived well by the spikes, but wait! hold on! heals for around 70Ish health? Theres only... a billion skills in the healing prayers line, and half a billion skills in the prot line, that heal for more with 1/2 the energy cost.

Other than the rare solo/dual farm use, SB is a completely useless skill if you ask me.

Excuse me sir, but I do believe you are mistaken!

Spirit Bond triggers on the next 10 attacks while it is active, healing for its quantity. That is not a heal for 70ish health. That is a maximum potential heal of seven hundred health, and that's assuming the monk has a very low protection attribute.

Of course if you're terrible and use it when red bars go down it won't seem to heal much better than Orison, but if you look at what's going on and put it on someone about to be hit by multiple attacks, you can get an extremely efficient heal out of it.

The problem with this skill in PvE is if monsters hit much higher than the amount SB heals for, the reduction is much less noticeable than if you had used Protective Spirit, as Nighthawk points out several posts before.

Oh, and this is a fact. I know because of my learnings.

LifeInfusion · Jan 02, 2008, 02:50 PM // 14:50

The reason why I asked this is because when I was PUGing *Gasp* for the second time in about a year (way to end the year haha), a monk used Spirit Bond on me (while playing as a caster). I forget where it was, but I didn't have Prot Spirit on me.

Other than that, I think Nighthawk/Avarre basically sum it up as PvE mobs hit harder than players would. I think it is worthy to note that it IS a 700+ heal provided the condition is met and you have 8-10 prot.

IMO it is a design flaw when Prot Spirit is basically *required* in Hard Mode.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasullybear

I dont even see why SB is used in GvG, sure it is actived well by the spikes, but wait! hold on! heals for around 70Ish health? Theres only... a billion skills in the healing prayers line, and half a billion skills in the prot line, that heal for more with 1/2 the energy cost.

Other than the rare solo/dual farm use, SB is a completely useless skill if you ask me.

Um it only heals for when >60 damage and only a portion of skills do more than 60 damage when the target has a shield swap and/or armor. That means it activates when you NEED it (like criticals/Eviscerate/Body Blow, etc.). So it is effective in PvP, I can see that. We're not talking about PvP though.

The whole point of the thread was just to affirm whether Spirit Bond is useful when mobs hit for more than 60... From experience, healing prayers isn't enough to deal with constant high damage like that of Hard mode unless you have prot and stuff like paragon support characters (paragon in PvE is still good after about 50 nerfs) and blinding surge eles (the problem being the lack of anything but single target damage outside of Chain Lightning). Healer's Boon and the Word of Healing buff sort of changed this but I think it still will remain that prot is king everywhere (considering restoration magic is numerically better for red bars go up).

P.S. for shits and giggles I'm going to run a hero monk with no prot spirit, only spirit bond in hard mode just to test this whole thing out. I personally feel hero AI is atrocious when it comes to prot (one of the reasons why I think Prot Spirit is better in general since it isn't wasted when they misfire it).

Pyro maniac · Jan 02, 2008, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Prot Spirit prevents damage over 60
Spirit bond heals for 80 when the damage is over 60

Spirit bond > Prot spirit in damage up to 140.

In PvP most high damages are 70-110. Therefore spirit bond is better
In PvE (especially HM) high damage can go up to 300. Prot spirit is prefered

Bring both on two different monks is better tho.

Yichi · Jan 02, 2008, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

In PvP most high damages are 70-110. Therefore spirit bond is better

... This line made me laugh

Kwan Xi · Jan 02, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

Prot Spirit prevents damage over 60
Spirit bond heals for 80 when the damage is over 60

Spirit bond > Prot spirit in damage up to 140.

In PvP most high damages are 70-110. Therefore spirit bond is better
In PvE (especially HM) high damage can go up to 300. Prot spirit is prefered

Bring both on two different monks is better tho.

That is assuming the Character you want to Protect has 600HP if they have less then 600 then Spirit Bond won't heal on a character with Protective Spirit on because their damage won't be high enough to activate it.

Note: Before you all start whining about having less then 600HP. I'm referring to PvE which what I assume from the the title of this thread where you have control of only your own HP and that of your Heros. Not henches and other players you group with.

Div · Jan 02, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Wow, I don't check monk forums for a day and so many epic posts I missed out on. Moko has the answer to everything.

RhanoctJocosa · Jan 02, 2008, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Why would you spirit bond though?

Your reasoning consists of "they shouldn't be doing 300".

Because Spirit Bond is so much better than Prot Spirit?